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 The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype

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In your mind, are Charmers/FPs a complete archetype now?
Yes; I like their current support as is.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Yes; I don't want there to be new support so I can make custom cards for them.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
No; Charmers need to be meta!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
No; I want them to make FP-Lyna and Petit Dragon but they don't have to be meta.
67%
 67% [ 2 ]
I want there to be more support for Charmers but not for FPs.
33%
 33% [ 1 ]
I want there to be more support for FPs but not for Charmers.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
I want them to make another meta archetype that can be used with Charmers/FPs as a hybrid.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 3
 

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Hippocampus
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PostSubject: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:00 am

First off, let me clarify why I'm posting this.

As we all know, Charmers and Familiar-Possessed decks got a big boost when Unpossessed and Jigobyte came out, and we all thought they were going to be meta because they had so much consistency either by themselves or in combination with the Hands, Performages, or what have you. But now we can see that they're still a rogue deck... stuff like Pepe, Mega Monarchs, and Kozmos are topping now, and even before that we had Nekroz, Burning Abyss, Tellarknights, Qliphorts, and Shaddolls consistently performing better than FP decks. Konami may be done with new Charmer support for now, but are we, the fans, satisfied with that? Do you want Charmers/FPs to keep rising to the top, or do you want them to remain a rogue deck? And will FP-Lyna ever be released? What do you think?

Also if you have an opinion that is not among the choices listed in this poll, feel free to discuss it.

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[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
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Last edited by Hippocampus on Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:17 pm

To be frank the reason I like them isn't really because of their competitiveness, but artwork (of course people knows that). But then again, looking at Charmers become competitive, and become meta, should be fun to see. Still, I don't really expect that to happen. I already love charmers the way they are, not as super powerful deck or whatever. But if you want to talk about their ability, new support is would be better since Charmers is still quite fragile even with cards like Unpossessed, they won't really last long. I've tested, especially against AI Chaos Dragon who loves to use Galaxy Cyclone from graveyard to destroy face up spell/trap. If that's destroyed, Charmers are helpless if you don't have any more useful backup.


But... there are some things which disturbed me. Other than FP Lyna (like what Hippo said), There's still no new version of Petit Dragon. I wonder if there's anything to do with the gap between Dharc and Lyna release date? Or they completely forget about Charmers? I don't know. Petit Dragon, I'm really hoping his new version could be released already.

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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:11 am

Kirikaze Fuuma wrote:
To be frank the reason I like them isn't really because of their competitiveness, but artwork (of course people knows that). But then again, looking at Charmers become competitive, and become meta, should be fun to see. Still, I don't really expect that to happen. I already love charmers the way they are, not as super powerful deck or whatever. But if you want to talk about their ability, new support is would be better since Charmers is still quite fragile even with cards like Unpossessed, they won't really last long. I've tested, especially against AI Chaos Dragon who loves to use Galaxy Cyclone from graveyard to destroy face up spell/trap. If that's destroyed, Charmers are helpless if you don't have any more useful backup.
So basically, you're okay with any of the poll choices lol

Kirikaze Fuuma wrote:
But... there are some things which disturbed me. Other than FP Lyna (like what Hippo said), There's still no new version of Petit Dragon. I wonder if there's anything to do with the gap between Dharc and Lyna release date? Or they completely forget about Charmers? I don't know. Petit Dragon, I'm really hoping his new version could be released already.
Yeah I'm hoping Petit Dragon comes out too; it would be really strange for it not to happen seeing that the other 3 familiars are already out. I actually think that Petit Dragon will be made before FP-Lyna because it's one of the original 4, and Konami normally likes to complete their archetype sets, while FP-Lyna was the last Charmer and thus would be expected to take the longest. I hope they haven't postponed it because we keep complaining that there are too many dragons Rolling Eyes

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Quote :
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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:41 am

Hippocampus wrote:
and we all thought they were going to be meta because they had so much consistency either by themselves or in combination with the Hands, Performages, or what have you.
I don't know who are you refering to, and I don't recall lot of people thinking they'll be meta, but I definitely not one of them.

Unpossessed deck's strength lies in its field advantage, and combined with Supply Squad the deck can manage well both in field and hand. The FP deck itself is very consistent being able to continuously summons FPs and familiars as decent beatsticks, also easy and consistent R4 access.

However, most monsters in the Main Deck are pretty much vanilla, don't have much options to take over opponent's plays unlike other top archetypes, and they're reliant on Xyz to solve problems due to their vanilla trait. Anyone can argue they use spell/trap too to solve problems, this is true. But if you see other top archetypes, their monsters have useful effects and combined with usable spell/trap, Charmers/FP basically handicapped with their vanila-ness.  

The Lv3 Charmers also really reliant on Unpossessed and less consistent than their FP counterparts. I will say the pure FP deck is a higher tier deck compared to mixed Charmers deck (using Lv3 one), due to their consistency with familiar summons and consistent R4 access that allow you to summon strong things like Cydra Infinity with ease. Not drawing Unpossessed isn't a problem when it can spam R4 consistently. Turn 1 Feral Imp already a step for further Xyz plays even without Unpossessed, while Lv3 Charmer dead without it. But, nowadays, being able to just spam R4 isn't enough.

To sum it up,
Are they consistent? Yes, they're a very consistent deck and they'll usually do what they supposed to do in most duels. However, they lack big/powerful/explosive/herp-derp plays compared to many archetype nowadays that would make them unable to compete with those higher tier decks. I personally fine with it, as they're balanced enough. Strong, but also not OP enough. Casual/fun/rogue, but is not weak enough against top decks to beat them pretty fast. They'll lose but they can hold the game pretty well until their death (unless maybe if you're screwed with turn 2 Vanity without backrow removal).

FP Lyna doesn't exist yet because we know she's too stupid to learn the magic. She might slack herself all this time or she just have no talent compared to other Charmers. You can't expect a Charmer that fed her familiar with expired food to be skillful with magic.

As for stuff like FP Lyna and familiar remakes, I have this weird intuition saying Konami  wouldn't find it fun if they release them so fast and prefer to blow the hype by releasing them after such a big gap of time. People couldn't be happier when Lyna released back then after such a big gap of time and resulting she wins 2nd rank at japanese Charmer poll (no one can beat Wynn since Wynn literally read as Win). We might eventually get them, but it could take like 20 years. I would like if 3rd form of Dharc and Lyna (Shining Lyna/Darkening Dharc or whatever their name would be) also get additional effects instead of just summoning LIGHT/DARK monsters.

So, to answer your question: I would say no. I'll only treat them as complete archetype only if FP Lyna, 3rd form of Lyna and Dharc, and FP Petit, Meda, and Happy Lover released. Among those cards, there's possibility that Charmers can be stronger than now. The existence of Jigabyte is one example that a new Charmer-related card can make notable change in the deck's strength.

Anyway, some fun fact right there, Charmer's gameplay actually is like combination of Gusto and Ritual Beast. They can float like Gusto via Unpossessed and Jigabyte, and the familiars can be special summoned after their master/tamer already summoned on the field like Ritual Beasts. They're definitely come from same roots just like their lore.

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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:27 pm

Eria wrote:
I will say the pure FP deck is a higher tier deck compared to mixed Charmers deck (using Lv3 one), due to their consistency with familiar summons and consistent R4 access that allow you to summon strong things like Cydra Infinity with ease.
Well if Ptollemaeus gets banned (which I really hope it will!), then they won't have access to Cydra anymore. But then again not much other decks will.

Eria wrote:
To sum it up,
Are they consistent? Yes, they're a very consistent deck and they'll usually do what they supposed to do in most duels. However, they lack big/powerful/explosive/herp-derp plays compared to many archetype nowadays that would make them unable to compete with those higher tier decks. I personally fine with it, as they're balanced enough. Strong, but also not OP enough. Casual/fun/rogue, but is not weak enough against top decks to beat them pretty fast. They'll lose but they can hold the game pretty well until their death (unless maybe if you're screwed with turn 2 Vanity without backrow removal).
Eria wrote:
So, to answer your question: I would say no. I'll only treat them as complete archetype only if FP Lyna, 3rd form of Lyna and Dharc, and FP Petit, Meda, and Happy Lover released. Among those cards, there's possibility that Charmers can be stronger than now. The existence of Jigabyte is one example that a new Charmer-related card can make notable change in the deck's strength.
But my question is whether you'd like them to ever attain a spot in the meta further down the road with new support which CAN do things like other top tier decks can, or if you'd like them to remain a rogue deck as they are now. I mean you kinda answered it, but still.

Eria wrote:
As for stuff like FP Lyna and familiar remakes, I have this weird intuition saying Konami wouldn't find it fun if they release them so fast and prefer to blow the hype by releasing them after such a big gap of time. People couldn't be happier when Lyna released back then after such a big gap of time and resulting she wins 2nd rank at japanese Charmer poll (no one can beat Wynn since Wynn literally read as Win). We might eventually get them, but it could take like 20 years. I would like if 3rd form of Dharc and Lyna (Shining Lyna/Darkening Dharc or whatever their name would be) also get additional effects instead of just summoning LIGHT/DARK monsters.
Fair point, and this probably will happen too.

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Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

Suspicious Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Cydra won't affect the deck much, as long as they have versatility in extra deck they won't miss it if Ptolemaeus banned. I'll actually be glad since it will free 3 extra slots.

Hippocampus wrote:
But my question is whether you'd like them to ever attain a spot in the meta further down the road with new support which CAN do things like other top tier decks can, or if you'd like them to remain a rogue deck as they are now. I mean you kinda answered it, but still.

I'm just answering the question in the poll itself, but alright I will answer that.
I actually have mixed feeling about that. I want Charmers to be really good with more support and stuff, but if it's that strong to the point of everyone started using it (hello meta clowns!), it won't feel unique anymore and boring. But of course seeing Charmers becomes meta is something I look forward too no matter how boring they'll be. It would be hilarious to see little girls and their pet plus a lone boy becomes meta. It will remind everyone that Charmers are existed. But, knowing Konami will always make more powerful cards in future and overpower old cards, I think I shouldn't worry they becomes boring for a while. I'm leaning more to wanting them to have things that other top decks can do, but also still pretty satisfied with them being rogue deck like now.

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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:30 am

Eria wrote:
I actually have mixed feeling about that. I want Charmers to be really good with more support and stuff, but if it's that strong to the point of everyone started using it (hello meta clowns!), it won't feel unique anymore and boring. But of course seeing Charmers becomes meta is something I look forward too no matter how boring they'll be. It would be hilarious to see little girls and their pet plus a lone boy becomes meta. It will remind everyone that Charmers are existed. But, knowing Konami will always make more powerful cards in future and overpower old cards, I think I shouldn't worry they becomes boring for a while. I'm leaning more to wanting them to have things that other top decks can do, but also still pretty satisfied with them being rogue deck like now.
Very good points here. Yeah it's natural that more powerful cards will be made in the future, and I'm not saying that Charmers would be top tier forever if/once they achieved this (imagine if a Charmer support card got hit by the banlist Shocked). But they do deserve a spot in the limelight, especially since they have their own damn sleeves by now lol

Edited the poll title to avoid confusion; the question is what you as a fan would like to have happen, not what you think Konami will do. Sorry to the 0 people who voted before this.

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Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

Suspicious Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: The future of Charmers/FPs as an archetype   Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:16 pm

I would like some more support for them (especially FP-Lyna) but I don't really want so much that they become meta. I love the Charmers as cards, but one of the reasons I truly enjoy DUELING with a Charmer deck is because its rogue.

It's kind of annoying to duel people you can tell are just using a copy-pasted formula deck they didn't put any real effort into building to be honest. I liked tinkering with my Charmer deck to make as good as I could get it without relying on a preexisting 'proven-useful' deck build. If the Charmers became meta though, seeing people using the Charmers as a copy-pasted meta deck would take some of the fun out of playing them myself.

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