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 What do you think Charmers need?

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CUZimMe
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PostSubject: What do you think Charmers need?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:00 pm

Hello! Sorry if this in the wrong section.

I was wondering what you guys think that Charmers need to be more competitive? I have not being able to come up with many. The ones I have being able to come up with are extremly OP.

In my opinion what they need are a XYZ forms of them. They should have effects similar effects to the regular XYZ staples. Each of them would have different stats. Like Aussa would have lots of defense and a Maestroke like effect and Hiita would have massive attack and an Omega like effect.

What do you think they need?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:43 pm

Honestly, with the advent of Possession Release/Familiars Unleashed/Unpossessed, Charmers have already started to become competitive, much more than they used to be. While the card is much more effective in a deck revolving around FP monsters and the new Familiars, it could also work well with Charmers themselves since it allows you to select which Charmer to summon from the deck much easier. This along with cards like Supply Squad provide incredible consistency that Charmers have never had before.

That being said, Xyz do seem like an obvious choice for pushing Charmers into the Tier 1/1.5 realm. The FPs and Familiars provide easy access to Rank 4 monsters, and if these said Rank 4s had effects tailored to the Charmers, that would make the archetype quite cohesive. My first idea would be to probably give the Xyz monster(s) the ability to recycle fallen Charmers, since this would increase consistency of the deck as well as also generate plusses that were lost upon Xyz Summoning or setting up the field. Whether this becomes OP or not is really up to the card creators themselves.

Speaking of which, if you have any ideas for Charmer support cards, you are free to post them in here, or in any new topic in the Custom Card section. Your post is a very good question and I don't see a reason that it should belong anywhere else, but know that many of us have already thought about this before and chose to provide concrete examples instead of merely asking the community for ideas.

Hope this helps!

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:49 am

I agree that they need their own Xyz, something that can only be Xyz Summoned by the Charmers/Familiar-Possessed themselves, and have great effects.

Right now their deck pretty much plays like a generic Xyz engine, but, without the Xyz monsters, they're just pretty much like vanilla monsters. The Lv 3 Charmers has utility to not be destroyed by battle, and searchable by Unpossessed, but, after testing the deck a lot, competitively speaking, using the Lv 3 Charmers isn't that worth it, since they clog the hands and are useless without Unpossessed.

I find the deck to be better without the Lv 3 Charmers as for right now, since without them, the deck will play smoothly compared to the build that uses the Lv 3 Charmers.

They probably need card that can make the Lv 3 Charmers has more use so they won't clog in hand pretty often. Probably Continuous Spell/Field that has effect as good as Unpossessed, but can be searched from deck by discarding a Lv 3 Charmer from hand. It could have effect to recycle your familiars (Inari Fire, etc) or Unpossessed card from grave by discarding a Lv 3 Charmer from your hand, it can also have effect similar like Spellbook of Tower; returning your Lv 3 Charmer back to the deck to draw 1 card or searching the familiars/Familiar-Possessed from your Deck. This can fix the consistency issues of using the Lv 3 Charmers, and turn them into consistency booster instead, while still being able to utility them with Unpossessed to steal opponent's monster.

The familiars right now already good as they bring more life to current Charmer decks. They function really well as quick Xyz engine, as well as having their own unique effects which is helpful to boost the deck's power. Archfiend Eater's ability to trigger Unpossessed as well as to trigger other familiars is pretty much necessary, and Jigabyte's effect to search other familiars is pretty neat. Even if Konami decides to stop giving direct Charmer support like Unpossessed, we at least still have hope in the familiars themselves, as Petit Dragon, Meda Bat, and Happy Lover is still not released yet. They could have effect like Caam Serenity of Gusto to recycle and give plus, or effect like Wolfbark/Tour Guide (summoning Charmer/Familiar-Possessed from either grave/deck), which can help Charmer deck to be stronger.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:42 am

I'd also say what Charmer need most is some sort of recycling ability. The part about the XYZ seems pretty important to me, too.
My problem with playing Charmer (or rather, FP) + Familiars into rank 4's is, they are barely more than an engine and other decks do that simply better right now. At least in my opinion.
The main issue here would be that Jigobyte's effect doesn't trigger on XYZ (or rather, he needs to be destroyed, than simply sent to the grave, like Shaddoll/Burning Abyss cards) and Inari Fire doesn't come back unless destroyed. So Inari Fire's effect would go best off of Archfiend Eater... But for that it needs to be on the field for the whole enemy turn. So yea, some sort of recylcing would be great.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:16 pm

I was thinking of them having a card like Black Whirlwind that would allow you to add a familiar when you normal summon a Charmer or Possessed. I was also thinking of a Stellarnova Alpha like card but it would destroy your monster instead of just sending it to the grave. Making Jigobyte way more useful with Unleashed on the field. I think that they also need a card that allows you to draw.

Although I am not too sure how adding the pendulum mecanic to the deck would work, I would really like to see it. Lyna's and Dharc's Familiars can be the pendulums. Make the new form of Dharc and Lyna Lvl 5 Effect Monster with Imprisoning Mirror like effects that only affect your opponent (ex: Lyna would cancel all the effects of light monsters your opponent controls).  When one of them leaves the field you can special summon or add one of the other Charmer, FP or Familiar. The pendulums can have effects that negate the destruction of your FP and Charmers or your opponent takes all battle damege you would.

I was also thinking of ways to have them work with the Dragon Rulers, because they are one of my fav cards, but they all have failed.

Sry if it is hard to understand, I am just tired at the moment.

Thx for Replying!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:41 pm

I'm not too much of a fan of pendulum stuff (yet) so I'm kinda against it. :p
Also, you got the Possession Release, Jigobyte and you can SS FP's from the deck (even tho the eff wouldn't be used in most cases probably anyways). But mainly because of the first 2, I don't think you'd need something like Black Whirlwind, cause it already exists in a similar way. But there's absolutely nothing that can use the grave (like almost every deck nowadays) except Archfiend Eater SS himself from grave.
The part about the Stellarnova Alpha, is it about the negation or destruction? Because in the second case, I think we're fine on it. Maybe a way to destroy Jigobyte in hand tho? (like Fire Kings)
If it's for the effect negation; I'm not too sure if/how much can Stellarknights profit from cards sent to the grave (didn't see much of them yet actually), but if it would destroy, that would be huge. Too huge to be honest. It's a counter to all effects, that let's us get rid of old stuff, summon new/better stuff and draw? Add in Supply Squad and you get like +3 of a single card? Guess why Pot of Greed is banned...
Speaking of Supply Squad, there you have your cards to draw. Maybe a more specific one wouldn't be so bad either tho. But for the moment Supply Squad is more than enough.
But maybe a card like Spellbook Tower? Recycle a card each turn?
Something along those lines;
"During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Familiar-Possessed" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Charmer" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Charmer" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Familiar-Possessed" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
You can only active one of these effect per turn."
Wording is probably terrible but whatever, I'm dead tired.
Maybe add in the Familiar's in some way as well. Whatever wrong thread anyways. Feel free to tinker with the idea tho, I'm gonna get some seriously needed sleep!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:34 pm

Yeah I totally see how the Stellarnova Alpha would be an OP card.

I totally agree with the Tower-like card idea.

The reason why I think that the black whirlwind card should exist is because it will help you go for even bigger plays. Like when you have a hand that only allows you to go for like 2 or 3 xyz you can make 4 or still go for 3 but one of them requires 3 materials like Ouroboros. It can make good hands into even better ones or bad hands into descent or good hands. It is just greed mostly.

Hope you rest well!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:31 am

CUZimMe wrote:
I was thinking of them having a card like Black Whirlwind that would allow you to add a familiar when you normal summon a Charmer or Possessed.
That would be really nice on one hand, but because Possession Release Special Summons right from the deck instead of Normal Summons, Black Charmer Whirlwind may not be the most consistent card for them. Plus, if you're playing Charmers, you'd have to Set them anyway, which also wouldn't trigger it.
CUZimMe wrote:
I think that they also need a card that allows you to draw.
Oh look, Charmer Sacrament says hi hmpfh

CUZimMe wrote:
Although I am not too sure how adding the pendulum mecanic to the deck would work, I would really like to see it. Lyna's and Dharc's Familiars can be the pendulums. Make the new form of Dharc and Lyna Lvl 5 Effect Monster with Imprisoning Mirror like effects that only affect your opponent (ex: Lyna would cancel all the effects of light monsters your opponent controls).  When one of them leaves the field you can special summon or add one of the other Charmer, FP or Familiar. The pendulums can have effects that negate the destruction of your FP and Charmers or your opponent takes all battle damege you would.
Not every deck has to have pendulums you know lol. But it's definitely plausible for the game. We just have to figure out how that can make sense within the Charmer's card lores.

Rewyn wrote:
The part about the Stellarnova Alpha, is it about the negation or destruction? Because in the second case, I think we're fine on it. Maybe a way to destroy Jigobyte in hand tho? (like Fire Kings)
If it's for the effect negation; I'm not too sure if/how much can Stellarknights profit from cards sent to the grave (didn't see much of them yet actually), but if it would destroy, that would be huge. Too huge to be honest. It's a counter to all effects, that let's us get rid of old stuff, summon new/better stuff and draw? Add in Supply Squad and you get like +3 of a single card? Guess why Pot of Greed is banned...
Limit the negation to Spell/Traps and remove the draw. Then it'd be fine for TCG even with Familiar destruction.
Rewyn wrote:
But maybe a card like Spellbook Tower? Recycle a card each turn?
Something along those lines;
"During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Familiar-Possessed" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Charmer" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Charmer" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Familiar-Possessed" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
You can only active one of these effect per turn."
That's a neat idea, and really helpful too. I think it would make more sense as an Xyz monster effect as opposed to a field card, since we can still then run Secret Village or Magical Citadel of Endymion if we want.

CUZimMe wrote:
The reason why I think that the black whirlwind card should exist is because it will help you go for even bigger plays. Like when you have a hand that only allows you to go for like 2 or 3 xyz you can make 4 or still go for 3 but one of them requires 3 materials like Ouroboros. It can make good hands into even better ones or bad hands into descent or good hands. It is just greed mostly.
How big do you want them to be lol? If we were making Xyz monsters here, wouldn't the best thing to do be to make them have a low summoning cost? Nowadays it's very possible to make 3 material Xyz, but why do that when 2 material Xyz are just as good, if not better, and cost one card less? 4 material Xyz just sounds like it'd never be used.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think Charmers need?   Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:35 am

Hippocampus wrote:

Rewyn wrote:
But maybe a card like Spellbook Tower? Recycle a card each turn?
Something along those lines;
"During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Familiar-Possessed" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Charmer" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
During your Standby Phase, if you have a "Charmer" Monster on your side of the field, you can return I "Familiar-Possessed" Monster from your graveyard to your deck.
You can only active one of these effect per turn."
That's a neat idea, and really helpful too. I think it would make more sense as an Xyz monster effect as opposed to a field card, since we can still then run Secret Village or Magical Citadel of Endymion if we want.
It don't need to be Xyz monster because Emeral exists. It can be either Field or Continuous Spell.

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