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 Guide on Using Charmers Effectively

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minimania
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PostSubject: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:49 pm

The old method
This method is the basic method on taking your opponent's monsters using the effects of the elemental charmers. You only need 3 cards to do this, any charmer, Waboku, and DNA Transplant.

Spoiler:
 

Using this method is advantageous, as the cards you are using are going to be set face-down, meaning that your opponent will not know what you're playing, until they have already attacked, or destroyed your cards. This method is disadvantageous as your opponent may not summon during his turn. Also, this method is very inconsistent.

Also, since your cards will be face-down, it is very possible that your opponent may play the card Ghostrick Alucard, and destroy your face-down charmer. This can destroy the combo, but the trap cards that you set, Waboku and DNA Surgery, can simply be activated before their destruction. DNA Surgery will not be destroyed, because it is not set, and Waboku can simply activate it's effect regardless if it's destroyed or not.

WARNING: Take note that there are cards in the game of Yu-Gi-Oh that cannot change control, so if your opponent only controls that card as a monster, it is wise that you do not activate your set traps.


Threatening Roar
Spoiler:
 



The Scroll Of Bewitchment
Spoiler:
 

Familiars Unleashed

Spoiler:
 

"Familiar Possessed"

Spoiler:
 


Relevant Cards
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by minimania on Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:16 am; edited 8 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:17 am

No mention of the new Charmer support? Smile

Actually, with that new Charmer support, we don't need Waboku anymore, as it already prevent Charmers from being destroyed by battle.

DNA Transplant will depend on your build. A single attribute Charmer deck will benefit from this, but in multiple attribute, Scroll of Bewitchment is generally better, since it's a Spell card and don't need a turn to be activated.

DNA and Scroll, post SECE, isn't really needed anymore. With Possession Release, the Charmers already turn into a defensive engine for your deck that can also control opponent's monster. And they're toolbox-able. Like, if your opponent destroy your monster with DARK attribute, just search Dharc. He already unable to be destroyed by battle and next turn you can just flip him to take control your opponent's monster. With Charmers being searchable like this to match your opponent's monster's attribute, you can drop DNA/Scroll from your deck for better cards for more consistency, as consistency is the main problem for Charmer deck. Since both DNA and Scroll doesn't bring much consistency by themselves, and just overall conditional.

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:28 am

So is this supposed to be a guide? Because if so, I guess it should be stickied or something... Rolling Eyes
Even though, for us Charmer users, this is fairly common knowledge already.

The good thing about DNA Surgery, however, compared to Scroll, is that your opponent won't know what you're planning until it's too late because everything is face-down. Scroll being a Magic card means you'll have to play it face-up, which means your opponent will see it. And let's be honest, how many decks do you know that run Scroll? Lol. So your opponent will probably know what you're up to before it's even their turn. Pre-SECE Charmers were fun because of their mind games - that's the whole reason they were flip effects.

But I agree that Possession Release is better in general because it does the work of both Waboku and Scroll in one. Arguably, it fits today's format even better because having a Charmer destroyed by battle and searching a new one thins the deck and helps you draw the card you need faster.

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:27 am

Hippocampus wrote:


The good thing about DNA Surgery, however, compared to Scroll, is that your opponent won't know what you're planning until it's too late because everything is face-down. Scroll being a Magic card means you'll have to play it face-up, which means your opponent will see it. And let's be honest, how many decks do you know that run Scroll? Lol. So your opponent will probably know what you're up to before it's even their turn. Pre-SECE Charmers were fun because of their mind games - that's the whole reason they were flip effects.

You mean Transplant.
And if you use DNA that way, what's the difference of it with Scroll then? Activate it during your opponent's turn? You activate it when you have the right moment to flip your Charmer to take control your opponent's monster, which, usually done in your own turn more often. Letting your opponent's attack goes through and hoping your Charmer's 1500 DEF survive isn't going to happen often if you plan to activate it in your opponent's turn unless you have Waboku. (Also if you use Waboku in Charmer deck, that means there'll be many cases when you get attacked by a monster with different attribute than your face-down Charmer when you don't draw DNA yet, it's actually quite a waste of their flip effect. Threatening Roar is better since it doesn't flip your Charmer when your opponent would attack it with different attribute monster)

Scroll on other hand can be activated as soon as you draw it since it's a spell. So, in case you activated Threatening Roar previous turn or have Messenger of Peace and still have Charmer face-down, you can immediately use Scroll. Compare this to DNA which you must wait 1 turn. Most of time you'll flip your Charmer during your turn anyway. So it doesn't make much difference unless you use single-attribute Charmer deck. DNA's strong point is when your opponent need a certain attribute monster to do something (like preventing them to Xyz Chidori), but that's not going to happen often.

This argument applies for pre-SECE Charmer Deck only. Now that we have Possession Release, a much better card than both DNA and Scroll, we can start discussing the combos with it, since it's very reliable compared to both DNA and Scroll. Like I said before, Charmer deck's issues is in its consistency. And when we speak consistency, DNA and Scroll doesn't offer that.

Post SECE, I rather use multiple Mirror Force and Supply Squads than using Scroll/DNA. Using Traptrix is also neat to boost the deck's consistency. Myrmeleo and Dionaea along with BTH and Traptrix Trap Hole Nightmare recommended. Not to mention both Charmers and Traptrix drawn by Akina too. If they can boost Charmer deck's consistency, why not?

ATM, my Charmer deck is using x3 Supply Squad, x3 Fire and Ice Hand, and Debris Dragon (SS any Charmer from grave, Synchro to Black Rose/Moonlight Rose, or SS Eria and synchro into Gungnir). The mindset is, hang on the field with Fire/Ice Hand, or keep drawing with Supply Squad until Possession Release is drawn, then have the Charmers take care the rest. If I got Possession Release early, then it's good start. I'm no longer focused on changing attribute anymore as Possession Release already did similar job by toolboxing any Charmer I want from my deck. The deck already allowed me to control the field through the hands, and Possession Release can do further by allowing me controlling opponent's monster by searching a Charmer I need, or just turn FP into bigger beatstick with it.

Conclusion, post-SECE, you don't need attribute changer for your Charmer deck. Drop them and change them with better cards that provides more consistency for your deck.

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:37 am

Eria wrote:
You mean Transplant.
facepalm
Eria wrote:
And if you use DNA that way, what's the difference of it with Scroll then? Activate it during your opponent's turn? You activate it when you have the right moment to flip your Charmer to take control your opponent's monster, which, usually done in your own turn more often. Letting your opponent's attack goes through and hoping your Charmer's 1500 DEF survive isn't going to happen often if you plan to activate it in your opponent's turn unless you have Waboku. (Also if you use Waboku in Charmer deck, that means there'll be many cases when you get attacked by a monster with different attribute than your face-down Charmer when you don't draw DNA yet, it's actually quite a waste of their flip effect. Threatening Roar is better since it doesn't flip your Charmer when your opponent would attack it with different attribute monster)
Well yes using Waboku was implied because that's what OP said in the first place. It's not very common to have all three in a starting hand, but ideally that would be a good situation, and then OP's method would work.

Eria wrote:
ATM, my Charmer deck is using x3 Supply Squad, x3 Fire and Ice Hand,
Well screw you, you're using a meta deck Razz

But you should post it nonetheless.

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[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:32 am

Actually, I'm going to go look at the new cards. Haven't seen them yet. I'm chainging this thread into a Guide on how to use the charmers.
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:57 am

Oh okay. Well the edits look pretty good so far. If you add more to this, I'll go ahead and sticky it, because when all is said and done we really need more guides.

Don't forget to post about all kinds of useful techs such as Scroll of Bewitchment, Genex Ally Changer, The Monarchs Thunder, Book of Taiyou, A/D Changer, Secret Village of the Spellcasters, and other things I may be forgetting.

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Quotes:
Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:19 am

TBH, if it's Pre-SECE means this guide is outdated, so I don't think it needs to be stickied. Stickied guide better be up to date with the cards we already have now, instead of looking back at the past without mentioning the usefulness of the new cards, that will help people more.

My suggestion is, add Familiars Unleashed/Possession Release to the OP as a method of post-SECE, then change the thread's title. Otherwise, I don't see the point of making this topic sticky since currently it has very limited info even for Pre-SECE and need to be updated more. So unstickied this (Hippo next time please discuss with other mods/admin when you considering a post needs to be stickied).

After this topic get more updated and in-depth info, it can be stickied again. Smile

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minimania
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Eria wrote:
TBH, if it's Pre-SECE means this guide is outdated, so I don't think it needs to be stickied. Stickied guide better be up to date with the cards we already have now, instead of looking back at the past without mentioning the usefulness of the new cards, that will help people more.

My suggestion is, add Familiars Unleashed/Possession Release to the OP as a method of post-SECE, then change the thread's title. Otherwise, I don't see the point of making this topic sticky since currently it has very limited info even for Pre-SECE and need to be updated more. So unstickied this (Hippo next time please discuss with other mods/admin when you considering a post needs to be stickied).

After this topic get more updated and in-depth info, it can be stickied again. Smile
I'm changing the nam after I'm done with the edits
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:33 pm

Eria wrote:
(Hippo next time please discuss with other mods/admin when you considering a post needs to be stickied).
As you wish, admin-sama *bows*

_________________
Quotes:
Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

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minimania
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:48 pm

Alright, I've updated, including The Scroll of Betwitchment and Familiars Unleashed, as well as the "Familiar Possessed".
In future updates, I will include the "Ally of Justice" and other cards.
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:11 am

Good job, Minimania! Now this topic can be stickied.

Also, since Waboku's there, how about including Threatening Roar too? Basically, unlike Waboku, Roar doesn't make you flip your Charmer during your opponent's turn. This can prevent your Charmer get flipped when there's monster with irrelevant attribute on your opponent's field. For example, you have Scroll of Bewitchment in your hand, but you can't flip your Charmer in the turn they're set. You can stall a turn with Roar to prevent your Charmer from getting attacked, then next turn you activate Scroll and flip your Charmer.

Another card worth to mention is Book of Moon. It's also a great card in general. In Charmer deck, it has use to flip the monster controlled by Charmer to face-down defense position, if this happens, when your Charmer is removed from your field, you keep controlling this monster until it's removed from the field. Book of Moon also enable you to flip your face-up Charmer back into face-down, allowing you to re-use their effect.

Tsukuyomi and Book of Eclipse can do similar thing, but Tsukuyomi is a monster with less Spell Speed compared to Book of Moon which is a Quick-Play Spell. But it has pros of being reuseable. Book of Eclipse turn all monsters into face-down defense position, this means it can also be used to stall, but the drawback needs to be considered and should be used carefully, since it can give your opponent free draws.

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:29 am

Thank you, Eria!
As mentioned, I am planning on updating this topic soon, so I can include cards like Book of Taiyou and Threatening Roar, but not right now. Right now, I have to get some sleep. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:44 am

minimania, what a trooper you are! Sacrificing sleep to write some Charmer articles. This forum needs more people like you XD

If we're suggesting cards to add to the OP, I may as well suggest Fiendish Chain. It only stops the attack of one opponent's monster, but it also negates that monster's effect, which can be really useful in today's game. And I dunno why people don't like Hidden Armory either - it's an even easier way to reuse your Scrolls, and you don't have to worry about the cost too much since it doesn't prevent Flip Summons.

Also (and this is me being nitpicky, but considering this is a guide now), you should probably spell "Bewitchment" correctly.

_________________
Quotes:
Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:00 am

I think Hidden Armory will depend on what kind of deck you use. I don't think it's worth it if you use Hidden Armory just for searching/reusing Scroll. Sometimes you need normal summon (like if you need to do Xyz), and sometimes being unable to do it is quite hurt, and since Charmer deck are already slow by their nature, this has potential to push them to even slower state.

However, if you have more useful equips than just Scroll, I can see it has more use. Since Charmers are Spellcasters, in Spellcaster based Charmer decks, you can use it along with Wonder Wand. Still, you should consider the drawback of Hidden Armory and Wonder Wand. Hidden Armory prevents normal summon, and Wonder Wand can leave your field empty. So, using searchers such as Apprentice Magician/Hands that can replace themselves can minimalize the impact of those drawbacks since they allow you to keep the field advantage.

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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:12 am

Eria wrote:
I think Hidden Armory will depend on what kind of deck you use. I don't think it's worth it if you use Hidden Armory just for searching/reusing Scroll. Sometimes you need normal summon (like if you need to do Xyz), and sometimes being unable to do it is quite hurt, and since Charmer deck are already slow by their nature, this has potential to push them to even slower state.

However, if you have more useful equips than just Scroll, I can see it has more use. Since Charmers are Spellcasters, in Spellcaster based Charmer decks, you can use it along with Wonder Wand. Still, you should consider the drawback of Hidden Armory and Wonder Wand. Hidden Armory prevents normal summon, and Wonder Wand can leave your field empty. So, using searchers such as Apprentice Magician/Hands that can replace themselves can minimalize the impact of those drawbacks since they allow you to keep the field advantage.
Fair point. I use Hidden Armory, but that's because I run more of a FP-beatdown deck that also uses One-Shot Wand and Bound Wand in addition to Scroll, so I do have much more targets. But I assume that this thread is about strictly "Charmer" decks, not "Familiar-Possessed" decks Razz

_________________
Quotes:
Quote :
[19:31:10 25/01/14] Corrupted Charmer, Y : We opened a new world
Quote :
[07:24:14] Runo : "The day when Hippocampus joined Charmers Community, he also lost his precious sleep time for sure."

Suspicious Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:01 pm

Actually, I plan on making this thread include the "Familiar Possessed" and strategies with those cards, but they will be added in the future.


EDIT: I added a clause on "Familiar Possessed", and changed the title to make it more accurate.
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PostSubject: Re: Guide on Using Charmers Effectively   Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:46 am

This guide needs an update.

Familiar-Possessed + Familiars (Inari/Eater/Jigobyte) + Familiars Unleashed = Rank 4 Xyz spam deck.

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